You can't fool Archive.org
Published on August 2, 2005 By Istari In WinCustomize News

Editorial:
deviantART is possibly the most popular art community on the Internet. Its community has been friends with our community since the beginning of this site. Its adminstrators have hung out here and WC's admins have hung out there. With milliosn of visitors a month, dA seems on the precipe of huge success. But last week, the company that owns deviantART fired the popular community founder Scott Jarkoff (aka "Jark").

More troubling has been the seemingly rewriting of history. Most long time members of the skinning community remember that it was Jark and his friend Matteo who founded and nursed deviantART. That it was their site and their vision. Such communities regularly get bought out by companies but rarely are the original founders rewritten to be minor players in the tail.

The CEO of the company that owns deviantART wrote this in response to the recent uproar over the dismissal of Jark: Spyed's response:Link

Excerpt:

"jark and I have worked together on deviantART from day 1. A little bit after the first year, we were joined by $mccann who created the Sonique MP3 player back in 1998. He began providing us with technical and financial assistance to keep it going.

Before this, deviantART was quite small and the costs of operation were nominal. With it's rapid growth thereafter, it began costing an arm and a leg to operate.

I was the first person to work on deviantART full time in 2002, and am also the only co-founder who took the risk of working with no salary at all. That is how much I believe in this community. I have dedicated my life to it. The other two co-founders have never worked fulltime on deviantART. They have always had either college, or a full-time job to contend with. Without question, especially in the early to mid parts of deviantART's life, Scott (°jark) sacraficed all of his available free time. And this was a significant sacrifice.

The second fulltime employee of deviantART was $chris at around the same time I joined in 2002. He was our CTO; today he manages our architecture.

I personally hand built and "installed" deviantART's first 35 servers. Chris rebuilt and maintained all of deviantART's code-base, servers and architecture beginning in 2002. We're talking math, computer science, architecture. That kind of stuff."

But Archive.org's caching of deviantART doesn't support these claims. deviantART was founded in late 2000 and even going forward into 2001, Spyed is not listed on the contact page. Why would a founder of the site not be listed on the contact page? Even using their dates -- 2002, that's a full two years after deviantART was founded which is a long time in the Internet world. By then, deviantART was already a success. Archive.org cashes throughout 2001 and into 2002 all list Jark, Matteo and a handful of others as the ones in charge, no mention of Spyed at all. It wasn't until mid 2002 before Angelo Sotira began being mentioned as CEO of "deviantART, Inc.", two years after the site's founding.

This isn't to diminish the importance of good business, capital, and infrastructure in deviantART's successful history. But deviantART wasn't founded in mid 2002. It was founded in 2000. Had deviantART been founded in 2002, even with the investment their CEO had lined up, it is unlikely that deviantART would be where it is today. deviantART's success was was a matter of timing. It was one of the few established art-related community sites left when the dot-com crashed in 2001. Through the efforts of its original community founders, it was in a position by 2002/2003 to be taken to the next level by investors. Both the company and the community founders were crucial in the site's success. But it is unenthical to discount the critical contribution that a couple of visionaries had, back in 2000, to create deviantART in the first place.
 


Comments (Page 1)
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on Aug 02, 2005

I don't know the whole story. I don't even know what happened or why Jark was let go.

But it does seem we have a basic disagreement over the value of labor vs. investment.  That's an over-simplification.  Angelo says that when he got involved in 2002 that he dedicated his full-time life to deviantART whereas Jark, who has a full-time job in Japan, was on the site part time.  But even that's not the full story.  When I founded Stardock, I was 20 years old. And during those early days, I could take chances that I could never take today as a 34 year old.  When I was 20, I just had myself to worry about.  Now at 34, I have a wife and two children that I'm responsible for and couldn't just quit a high paying day job for that.  I suspect Angelo and Jark's situations in 2002 were similar.

There is no doubt that Angelo has put an immense amount of effort into deviantART.  Moreover, he seems to have a gifted-level business talent. But, as Tandis correctly points out, it was Jark and Matteo who created the site in the first-place.  Timing was everything. dA took off at the beginning largely thanks to the demise of Skinz.org and a bunch of other VC funded sites.  There was an established community there to work with., to build on and Jark and Matteo's contribution to that (along with others like Atilla) can't be minimized. 

We don't know the whole story yet.  I don't know what impact this whole thing will have on deviantART.  I suspect it'll have very very little impact on deviantART - the company but it may have significant impact on deviantART - the community.

on Aug 02, 2005
I suspect it'll have very very little impact on deviantART - the company but it may have significant impact on deviantART - the community.


How true.
on Aug 02, 2005
I suspect it'll have very very little impact on deviantART - the company but it may have significant impact on deviantART - the community.


I couldn't have said it better...
on Aug 02, 2005
I'm a old member of DA, was there in 2001, I haven't been active for a while, beleiving that hte site had lost touch with reality. I'm starting to understand why. Only the older member of DA and the few who actually cares will leave the site, 95% of active member wont change a thing.

I give my 100% support to Jark as I am one of the old one and i'm also a company owner, I don't beleive that he was treated fairly, according the what I have read so far. But I,m not saying that thing will not change once we start to know the truth from both side.

The Art/Skinning/Customizing community was rather slow, let just say it's adding to the ambiance now
on Aug 02, 2005
c242 - is a deviant since Dec 14, 2000
on Aug 02, 2005
I predate that by five months, but I don't see the relevance of that bit of trivia.

I'm with brubbles all the way. But it would be wrong to say that it has lost touch with reality. It's more so that it is completely emerged in itself.

In the back of my mind I do feel the timing of it all is suspicious. "crae, crae", my inner voices whisper, "it could just be a publicity stunt". Hell, what do I know. I'll wait for jarkles' grand history of DevArt to be aired.
on Aug 02, 2005
http://web.archive.org/collections/web.html

Go there and punch in Deviantart.com. It gives you a little look at the past.
on Aug 02, 2005
I think this is a terrible slap in the face to the deviantart community. I was there as well, a member of skinz.org until they were sold and closed. And I saw the establishment of deviantart and its success. It'll be really interesting if we suddenly see archive.org lose its cache.
on Aug 02, 2005
I don't know the whole story. I don't even know what happened or why Jark was let go.

He didn't. He was forcefully removed. Apparently, not even him knows why he has been dismissed.
on Aug 02, 2005
You might want to read this: http://probingthetruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/subject-truth-about-deviantart.html
on Aug 02, 2005
Wow! Quite the eye opener.
on Aug 02, 2005
well, I was a DeviantArt member since 3 days before it openned....today I removed all my accounts from there. During those years I learned about Scott as a good and loyal friend and to me, once again, Jark IS DeviantArt, so if he is not there anymore, I am not either.

treetog GO! GO!
on Aug 02, 2005
Well, if that email post is accurate, then it's no surprise at all why Jark got the boot. There is no way that the people in DA would meet those demands - even if they are fair - because it would require certain people to lose face and power. End result - let the lawsuits commence.
on Aug 02, 2005
The articles of incorporation (be it LLC, C, or S-corp), require that all stockholders/founders be notified of changes, meetings, etc. that pertain to these documents, rules changes, board of director meetings, and related issues - i.e. anything that can and must only be decided via a vote. By NOT notifying Jark of these events, and by not properly reporting financials in a timely fashion etc., they may very well have breeched the initial incorporation documents. That can mean anything up to and including rendering them void, causing a jury/judge to decide who owns ALL of deviantart. And that is irregardless of the corporate (and legally actionable) malfeasance that some of these actions seem to represent (and a judge won't take no for an answer on their disclosure). It should be quite interesting. Jark's biggest problem is that he signed the previous agreement, but if they've breeched it anyway, the point may be moot.
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